Season 2: Arya S. (Mrs. CovFree) vs. Jamie L. (Mr. CovFan). Extract of a serious conversation between a « covido-sceptic » and a « covido-fanatic » about measures, ethics, democracy, ICU, treatments and frauds embedded in a parodic and dystopian near future, just for the laugh… Hope it can help contributing to the debate and reflection. Now premiering on HCQ Channel.
Epilogue: Winter is coming or how expressing your opinion and doubts about the usefulness and efficiency of generalized measures on the whole population with a survival rate of 99.9xx % and the right for people to choose and take back their lives in their own hands after such a long time leads you to a fight in these troubled times…
Despite the freezing cold, Arya was feeling free for the 1st time in months. Finally, she had passed the great walls that were now circling most of the cities in the world. The task had not been easy with all the controls and check points to prevent people to travel since the virus had appeared 3 years ago. Galloping in the great wilderness without mask and safety suit was exhilarating. A dim hue of red and yellow light was visible through the now permanent fog. She was to join the free folks in the North, story had it that some were giants since the great genetic mutations… There were also story about white walkers, also called the AstraZenecans for some reason. How the world had changed so fast within a few years… On her journey, her mind start to remember how it all started. Her thoughts came back on her meeting with Jamie and the heated discussion they had then, in another world, another time…
Arya S., alias Mrs. CovFree:
(Commenting to a Covid-19 related post on FB. Hang on, if you do not speak the language of these North Folks, just go to Episode 1, where the common English language part starts, if you mostly want the fun directly peek to Episode 2, 3 and the Epilogue …)
Pour moi, les vraies questions sont :
1) Où sont les preuves scientifiques de l’utilité de toutes ces mesures ? Le confinement et autres mesures sanitaires strictes et généralisées à l’ensemble de la population, tel qu’il est possible de les appliquer de façon réaliste, ne semblent pas marcher, elles pourraient même être contreproductives. Des études scientifiques le prouvent, en voici une d’un expert de Stanford mondialement reconnu et avec un h-index de 210 et 65000 citations par an :
2) Pourquoi on continue alors que la mortalité est en fait beaucoup plus faible que ce qu’on pensait au début et la balance bénéfice risque semble catastrophique…
3) Pourquoi on veut absolument vacciner toute la population dont la majorité a un taux de survie supérieur a 99.99 % avec des vaccins testés et approuvés en grande hâte et dont on ne sait toujours pas s’ils empêchent la transmission?
4) Un gouvernement démocratique a-t’il le droit de décider de prendre toutes ces mesures dans la durée a la place des citoyens ?
Voici mon avis, il a le mérite d’être tranché :
En démocratie chacun a le droit de choisir, s’il veut vivre le reste de sa vie avec un masque, ou s’il désire vivre normalement. L’histoire de « oui mais tu contamines les autres », celui qui veut se protéger se protège évite les gens et pas les autres, on peut faire des plages différenciées pour les personnes à risque, qui ont peur, leur distribuer des masques FFP2… Le passeport vaccinal qui consiste à forcer (si on le refuse on est virtuellement prisonnier) un vaccin expérimental dont on ne sait même pas s’il protège de la transmission, ni même contre les cas graves, ni même de sa durée et il pourrait en fait aggraver la maladie (d’ailleurs, encore plus scandaleux, on veut maintenant vacciner massivement nos jeunes avec le vaccin à vecteur viral d’Astra-Zeneca, où une chimère vient introduire de l’ADN viral rétro-transcrit dans le noyau de leurs cellules, au risque de modifier leur ADN de façon inconnue).
En dictature, on fait le prétendu bien du peuple malgré le peuple et dans le réel intérêt de certains, et pour moi oui aujourd’hui, après près d’un an, nous ne sommes plus en situation d’urgence mais dans une situation qui est là, il est plus que logique de se poser des questions et de se bouger pour protéger un bien plus précieux encore que la survie, ça s’appelle la liberté de vivre et de choisir.
D’ailleurs, en parlant de l’intérêt de qui nos experts et politiciens les plus alarmistes servent, il est bon d’aller se rafraîchir la mémoire et de voir que ces mêmes personnes ont déjà fait scandale entre-autre dans l’affaire du H1N1 ou l’affaire Agusta.
Choix du vaccin : cinq experts liés à GSK
Episode 1: Requiem for a Fight or so the argument starts
Jamie L., alias Mr. CovFan:
Arya Coffee, you’re failing to consider a lot of factors, direct mortality of a disease isn’t everything. You have multiple compounding effects which make this pandemic lethal and costly on a longer terms if you don’t restrict social contacts:
a) Your healthcare system gets flooded and you lose the ability to handle otherwise treatable cases, causing a severe rise in excess mortality. You have to choose to provide your limited resources to either pandemic victims or regular cases.
b) The direct mortality isn’t the only factor that makes this virus dangerous, it also causes severe long-term effects in healthy young people. The exact numbers are fuzzy, but a sizable portion of the folks who were infected experience post-viral fatigue, clotting disorders, have signs of brain damage, … This long-term disables a noticeable segment of the workforce, some of who may never recover in fact.
And to put it bluntly, if everyone would properly respect the containment measures for a month this would have been mostly over by now and containment would be possible by contact tracing. But everyone is constantly skirting the rules, idiotic employers are forcing employees to show up for work they can easily do remotely, and people are posting bullshit on Facebook claiming covid isn’t « that bad » causing people to do even more of the former. So yeah, before you wish to continue down this paranoid hell hole of arguing, think about what you’re actually proposing. I find it morally and ethically deplorable that you seem to wish to sacrifice human lives for the « good of the economy », and even economically it doesn’t make much sense to let go of the restrictions now.
Jamie Coffin, I am a scientist, I like statements backed up by facts and numbers not opinions. The ICU part of the healthcare system was only flooded for 1 week in April 2020. 1200 ICU beds for 103 hospitals that is 12 beds per hospital on average in Belgium (and that is about what there is), there used to be 12 000 beds 30 years ago. Hospitals are flooded for the last 10 years and doctors and nurses have been in the street asking for more funding for the last 10 years, without success. If prevention and early treatments were not often disregarded or even forbidden by preventing GP’s to treat patients, fatality, secondary effects and hospitalization would be way lower (there are plenty of statistics and numbers about that by the way, it is not fuzzy number in this case. Here a link towards a doctor association talking about this in more details:
For b) How serious is that? How many people are we talking about? Let’s not talk about fuzzy number… From what I know, the proportion of healthy young people that have side-effects or end up in ICU are really, really low (similar to what happens with flu or even less) and will be more than compensated by depressions, suicides and loss of economic future (jobs, healthcare system investment that is further reduced against all common sense, lack of money in education…) Again, there are treatments and combination of treatments that given early are working:
Check also what is done in hospital in Marseille. where they have a well define protocol, with different products… and their stats on several 10 000 of patients show a very low mortality rate and amount of complications and mostly for 85+ …
Concerning your last point: “if everyone would properly respect the containment measures for a month this would have been mostly over by now and containment would be possible by contact tracing” do you have any proof or is it again something you just got like that? If you really read my post above, I told you that scientific evidences are not for the strictest non-medical measures, I gave you one scientific reference but there are many others, even WHO came back on that now… But I guess you have an opinion and that’s it right? By the way do you know that in many countries in Europe the epidemic went down exactly at the same time, despite the different measures, including for some countries that did not have any lockdown and masks? Do you know that this epidemic seems to be seasonal and also pass to human to animals and back and will most likely come back with some mutation as soon as you get out?
Concerning the morality and ethics “find it morally and ethically deplorable that you seem to wish to sacrifice human lives for the « good of the economy », and even economically it doesn’t make much sense to let go of the restrictions now”, I will give just a few other numbers (a far from being exhaustive list):
One person every 3 s, dies of starvation and extreme poverty in the world, between a 1/3 and half of that are children… that’s 10.5 millions/years (like the child on the picture enclosed). How many lives we could have really saved, if we were not so self-centred and paranoic about our own lives with a “Pandemic” that 99.9xx of us survive and make the super rich, even richer, while most of the rest are getting collectively poorer, including the young generation that will have to bear and pay the consequence for 10 to 20 years? Do you know that in Belgium there is more than 10 years difference of live expectancy between the rich and the poor?
Indeed, just in the US, after 11 months of pandemic misery, where millions have lost their jobs, health and wealth, total US billionaire wealth increased $1.3 trillion since mid-March, 2020, an increase of 44 percent.
The billionaires’ $1.3 trillion pandemic wealth gain alone could pay for over two-thirds of President Biden’s proposed $1.9 trillion COVID rescue package, which Congressional Republicans have attacked as too costly. At $4.2 trillion, the total wealth of America’s 664 billionaires is also more than two-thirds higher than the $2.4 trillion in total wealth held by the bottom half of the population, 165 million Americans.
The $1.3 trillion wealth gain by U.S. billionaires since March 2020 could pay for a stimulus check of more than $3,900 for every one of the roughly 331 million people in the United States. A family of four would receive over $15,000. Republicans in Congress resisted sending families stimulus checks most of last year, claiming we couldn’t afford them.
Indeed, ordinary Americans have not fared as well as billionaires over the past 11 months:
Collective work income of rank-and-file private-sector employees—all hours worked times the hourly wages of the entire bottom 82% of the workforce—declined by almost 3% in real terms from mid-March to mid-January, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data.
Over 76 million lost work between Mar. 21, 2020, and Jan. 23, 2021. [S. Department of Labor]
18 million were collecting unemployment on Jan. 30, 2021. [S. Department of Labor]
Nearly 100,000 businesses have permanently closed. [Yelp/CNBC]
12 million workers had likely lost employer-sponsored health insurance during the pandemic as of August 26, 2020. [Economic Policy Institute]
Some 24 million adults reported between Jan. 20-Feb. 1 that their household had not had enough food in the past week. From Jan. 6-18, between 7 and 11 million children lived in a household where kids did not eat enough because the household could not afford to fully feed them. [Center on Budget & Policy Priorities (CBPP)]
2 million adults—almost 1 in 5 renters—reported in January being behind in their rent. [CBPP]
Finally, there is also a severe risk about privacy, freedom, democracy, dehumanization of the society (end of social relation, people dying alone in hospital and no proper burial…) but again I guess from your comment you do not seem to have an ethical problem with that, or do you? The risk arises from all these measures that are taken but also from the fact that some individuals have become so rich they have a lobbying and controlling power greater than many states over the media, vital resources like energy and food resources, over the WHO, UN, world banks and monetary founds. They are ever pushing for more private/public sector collaboration and more globalisation of governance and institutions that reduces common citizen weight and visibility to the legislators, and even our governments power itself, and somehow the fiscal laws and measures are increasingly favourable for their businesses.
For instance, lot of the measure we are following in a big part of the world today (not everywhere by the way, and it is interesting to look on how the situation is there too) are coming from the WHO and were implemented in 2019 in the Event 201:
The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation hosted Event 201, a high-level pandemic exercise on October 18, 2019, in New York, NY. The exercise illustrated areas where public/private partnerships will be necessary during the response to a severe pandemic in order to diminish large-scale economic and societal consequences. Recommendations issued by the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in collaboration with the World Economic Forum and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/media
L’art de la fausse générosité: La fondation Bill et Melinda Gates
Qui est Tedros Adhanom Gebreyesus : le directeur général de l’OMS. Elu en 2017, l ’ancien ministre éthiopien de la santé avait bénéficié de plusieurs soutiens déterminants : l’Union africaine, la Chine avait pesé de tout son poids, politique et financier et des mécènes privés, jouant un rôle croissant au sein de l‘OMS, comme Bill et Melinda Gates ou Warren Buffet avaient également appuyé sa candidature.
Citée par la chercheuse belge Sinta Depuyt dans Health Impact News, l’Union des professionnels amharas s’opposera à la candidature du Dr Tedros à l’OMS en dénonçant dans une lettre ouverte la « politique discriminatoire » menée à l’encontre des Amharas, et évoque la stérilisation des femmes et l’administration, sans le consentement des intéressées, d’un médicament contraceptif très contesté le « Dep-Provera », qui entraîne de graves effets secondaires et a été interdit dans de nombreux pays.
WEF take over of UN strongly condemned: With the annual meeting of the World Economic Forum in DAVOS around the corner, hundreds of CSOs reiterate comdemnation of the partnership between the corporate world with the UN.
These are not fake news, just facts, it does not prove anything but should alert us that it is not healthy to leave too much power in the hands of a few, even if their intentions are good, these are not democratically elected people… More details on all this in case you are still reading and interested 😉
Episode 2: The Holy Inquisition:
Arya, you do not get to call yourself a scientist based on the garbage you’ve been spouting here. In fact, your very first link talks about prescribing hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), which was shown to increase mortality in covid patients. Do you actually bother to read the research or are you busy reading Facebook?
Episode 3: The King in the North:
Jamie, I was actually talking about ivermectin, d vitamin and zinc that you can combine to further improve their efficencies ( check the real time status of the scientific Database that consider several hundreds of studies about COVID-19 treatments, for instance for ivermectin with an efficiency of close to 90% in early treatment and that is more and more used around the world https://c19ivermectin.com/ )…
But by the way for HCQ are you talking among other about the infamous Lancet study (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext) or that from the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM), that both got retracted for fraud? If you still have doubts, maybe you should read this: Many scientists citing two scandalous COVID-19 papers ignore their retractions :
In addition, in many studies, 2.4 g per day for 5 days were given to nearly dying patients. 2.4 g per days is 2x the lethal dose. Do you know that if you take 2x more Dafalgan that you should per day, you may likely be dead within 3 days from a liver necrosis? Is Dafalgan lethal then? But even with that high dosage of HCQ, in the end it is now admitted that lethality rate is reduced by ~25% . The recommended dosage was 400 g for 10 days as early as possible with antibiotics (lethality reduction in the 65 to 70%: check the real time status of the Database of all HCQ COVID-19 studies at https://c19study.com/ ) and even better if you combine with d-vitamines from several studies…
A last reference for you. Have you noticed, I give references and stay polite, unlike you:
Kamran Abbasi, executive editor of the British Medical Journal (one of the top 10 medical journal):
Covid-19: politicisation, “corruption,” and suppression of science
BMJ 2020; 371 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.m4425 (Published 13 November 2020)
When good science is suppressed by the medical-political complex, people die
Jamie : Speechless (defeated?) or so it seems, as no answer ever came…
Arya got out of her reverie, it was close to noon now. « I wonder if this conversation, and all the other conversations I had then, would have any impact on this crisis. Do people ever change their opinion? », she wondered.
What Arya did not know then, was that this particular conversation would unfold a chain of events that would change the course of History forever.
Five year later, a long Winter has come to the world that has gone back to a medieval age. After the world average temperature had further risen by a frightening 0.1 degree C, due to global warming and despite the full lockdown of the world for the last 2 years, the just-created world united government of the 7 Kingdoms needed to act quickly as all the models had predicted that the exponential increase will make the rise to nearly 50 degree C in the next 20 years, and that would likely kill 1/2 the world population. A project promoted by their scientific advisor, a world billionaire and philantrop known for his great integrity, and advocated at the massive world show by their ambassadress Greena Tunaberg was swiftly put into action. It involved releasing a massive amount of nanoparticles in the atmosphere that would cloud the sunshine for the next 50 years or so. Proof of his great generosity, our philantrop gave 200 millions $ to help founding this 200 Trillion $ project to his own company that was selling the whole thing. As a consequence, the world temperature dropped more rapidly and strongly than expected by 30 degree C and the long winter has come. Still, as announced in the media, it saved about a quarter of the world population from global warming, as only a quarter of the world population died in the great famine and cold enhanced by world-wide electrical blackout (all the wind turbines froze, and coal, nuclear and oil plants were long dismantled) that followed…
The man on the horse reined in as the patrol stopped him.
– “Stop”, shouted the guards to the man with the right hand missing.
– “Where is your mask and where is your certificate of vaccination?”, asked the man in charge.
– “I do not wear a mask and I do not have your bloody certificate, I’m a Friar in the Sect of Riaoult de Marsielle and sworned to HCQ and Ivermectin”, answered Jamie loud and boldly, his sole hand was now on the pommel of his sword…
The guards were now circling the man, vaccine-spears pointing towards him. By order of their Great lord of the order of the WHOzard, Bill Greed, there was only one sentence for such a dangerous heresy and they would deliver it swift and bloody…
A voir aussi. March For Freedom
Ensemble de Posts brefs reliés au Covid sur la mortalité, le confinement, les vaccins, les traitements comme l’ivermectine, la vitamine d et le zinc et qui seront postés durant ce mois de mars, en marche vers notre liberté retrouvée?
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